Notes
Note H4011
Index
Email from John Parker dated 12MAR2009, subject "RE: William Mackie ... Confusion with 2 John William Mackies"
Megan, William Mackie???? Never heard of him, but then I haven't been researching that far back. I tend to start with the families when they arrive in Australia. My attached was in reference to John William Mackie.
This gets a bit confusing ... as there were two John William Mackies, two Elizabeth Mackies [and even a Edward Mackie and Edward Comber]
As I understand it ... in Elizabeth Comber's hand written note, are all the DOBs of all of her siblings [issuing from her parents, Edward Comber and Elizabeth Mackie]. In it we find her younger brother "John William Mackay Comber" being born 3/3/1857.
This is not the same person, as J.W.Mackie [aka Mackay] who was born in Ireland on 28/11/1831, and who later became a multi-millionaire by virtue of his gold discovery in Nevada. Elizabeth Comber's parents may have named their 4th child after him... who knows???
As already noted above and in Hertel's book we learn that Elizabeth Comber's mother, Elizabeth Mackie [b.7/3/1831] married Edward Comber on 21/7/1851. Going back one more generation of Mackies, Elizabeth Mackie's parents were Mary & Edward Mackie. Thus the millionaire William John Mackie may have been a brother of Edward Mackie, which would make him a bro-in-law to Mary Mackie and an uncle to Elizabeth Mackie.
So Elizabeth Mackie's daughter, Elizabeth Comber [nee Mackie] may have had very rich relative, albeit a distant one.
Why did Lorna Miller choose to talk about the millionaire JW Mackie? I guess when you live in a place like Narrabri at the turn of the century anything to set you apart from the local yokels was fair game. I researched the multi-millionaire JW Mackie simply as verification of Lorna's note. Also I thought that some of the readers of my family tree document would also find it interesting.
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I have a few questions for you ... you may have answers, if not so be it.
Who is Ryan Dudley ... is he a genealogy researcher? If so what are his rates?
Do you know when the two houses in Maitland Street, Narrabri were washed away in a flood? At the time my grandmother Alice Amelia Rowland [nee Hardy] was living there [it was the same house that Elizabeth Comber lived in until her death in 1927].
Do you know where Robert Hardy Jr and Elizabeth Comber-Hardy are buried?
Was it in the old Narrabri cemetry?
If so do you know in which religion section they would be? C of E section?
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Reply to John Parker dated 12MAR2009
Let me start by agreeing with you - the Mackie/Mackey/McKay family of ours is VERY CONFUSING. I will try and clarify my research to date for you:
1a. Elizabeth Mackie was born to Sgt Edward Mackie and one of two women. I started with Mary McGrath via an IGI (familysearch.org) listing.
1b. I was contacted in 2008 by Cheryl Mongan, author and researcher of the Irish Famine Orphans, who confirmed that a second IGI entry against Sgt Edward Mackie showed wife Ann Taylor.
1c. I persevered with some more searching and found one IGI entry that showed Sgt Edward with TWO wives - Mary McGrath and Ann Taylor. Note that the NSW Baptismal certificate (1756 vol 162A) shows mother MARY Mackey.
1d. Another IGI entry under Edward Mackey - Mary McGrath shows a son William John McKey. There is no dating on this entry, however, the timing COULD match the Willilam John Mackey, of Comstock Lode fame. Note that I say COULD, please.
2. Elizabeth Mackie returned to Australia aboard the Irish Famine Orphan ship JOHN KNOX in 1850. I have a certified copy from the NSW State Records showing Elizabeth and sister Sarah arriving on this ship. There is also mention that Elizabeth and Sarah were intending to live with an "...an aunt, a cousin Ann Gilroy..." in Sydney.
3. The death certificate of Elizabeth Mackie Comber is (I find) fairly confusing. I believe that some of the data reflects on the informant rather than the deceased.
4. In further researching Sgt Edward and his descendants, I found an IGI listing that showed Mary Jane Mackay, Elizabeth Mackay and Sarah Mackay, all born in Ferozepore, India (which is incorrect), but on the correct dates.
5. My mother used to tell me that we had a link into the Comstock Lode event, and I had the impression that it had something to do with my grandmother (Isabella Sarah Comber Hardy Miller). I have nothing solid to present.
As I indicated previously, I have nothing from my grandmother as all her things were held by her son Harold John Miller (aka Jack), and I do not know what happened to that history when he died. All my research has been on the internet, and via correspondence with other researchers.
To answer your questions:
1. Ryan Dudley contacted me via Genes Reunited in July 2007 to tell me that he "...believe(d) Edward's sister Elizabeth was the defacto wife of my great...uncle John Fitzsimmons." It is my understanding he is conducting his own research.
2. I have no knowledge of houses in Narrabri affected by a flood - are these the Hopeville and Mollyview properties?
3-4-5. As far as I know both Robert and Elizabeth are buried in Narrabri, and are most probably in the CoE section.
Hope this helps understand my viewpoint?
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Email from John Parker dated 13MAR2009, subject "Family Tree - Response to your previous email"
In respect of items 1-4 ... Thanks for sharing the background information on the Mackie/Mackey/McKay family. It is interesting, but as I stated, I tend to draw a line as to when my interest starts ... namely those who arrived in Australia and started having families down until today. I know there are people who like to go back to as far as they can go, but for me the bloodline becomes too diluted after 100-200 years to really say we have anything in common apart from a shared surname. Nonetheless, to those who do go to that length, my hat goes off to them.
Item 5. ... Its funny you should say that, because I distinctly recall on a few occasions my mother telling me that somewhere in the Comber family there lies a considerable fortune, but nobody seemed to know too much about it. I put this down to the garbled understanding later generations had of the Mackies. At the time [when I was a youngster] I got the impression it might have been an estate in England. However, that idea is preposterous and knowing what I know now, it is evident that they were talking about JW Mackie and his gold mine.
Ryan Dudley must have been doing some family research that crossed over your family tree. Well done, because he certainly cleared up the myth about the prize fighter Bob Fitzsimmons and brought some credence to the story of the two Fitzsimmons girls. If you have a contact email address for Ryan I would appreciate it.
Most of my knowledge on our side of the family is the product of what I collected when my grandmother and her daughters were alive. They tended to keep things of sentimental value and when my mother Sylvia died I made sure I kept them. Back in 1996 I did considerable research on my father's family tree and within the last 2 years I embarked on a more readable narrative of my mother's side for her grandchildren and great grandchildren.
Also, some of it came from Hertels book. The peripheral stuff came from my own surfing of the Net. Fortunately, its been by chance that I came across your website and the opportunity to share whatever we can contribute with each other.
There have been many floods in the Narrabri district ... too many I think. However, the Hopeville and Mollyview properties were all sold off ... probably well before the 20th century, The two houses at the Wee Waa end of Maitland Street were the last things that remained within the family. One of them must have substantial because the combined Hardy household must have had around 17 children from his unions with Mary Minchin and Elizabeth Comber I believe one of them was converted into a "hostel" for delivering children. Elizabeth Comber was apparently an adept hand as a midwife. Midwifery seemed to be a preserve of matrons which came with a lifetime experience of delivering their own babies and for others. In those days medical support out in the bush was scant and these women helped each other out. If you look at the birth records of some of these women, you will see a very high mortality rate associated with their young broods.
The other house [referred to as the Rose Cottage] seemed to be the one that Elizabeth Comber lived in until her death in 1927. Her daughter Alice and hubbie Fred lived there [he died in 1939] until a flood later washed both houses away.
As a small kid my mother took me there and all I can remember seeing was a couple of water pipes sticking up out of Doctors Creek. There was a nearby wooden road bridge at the time, but I think that has been replaced with something more substantial.
When did the flood come? It had to be in the 1940s and I'm led to believe there was one in 1942. I've tried scouring local records to verify it but without success. However, people tell me that Alice moved to West Narrabri for a while until she moved to Sydney in the early 1950s to live with her daughter Kathleen.
I suspected that Robert Hardy and Elizabeth Comber are in the old cemetery, but most likely they were buried in unmarked graves which was not uncommon in those days.
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Email reply to John Parker dated 13MAR2009
Hey John - I think it is good that we have shared our "philosophies"(for want of a better word). I agree that close bloodlines are more accurate, but it is also fascinating to see WHY they came to Australia
I have also come across the various mysteries caused by conflicting data - registration data vs home truths... my Grandmother Isabella ALWAYS celebrated her birthdate as 1885 - even the certificate says 1885 - so I wonder why Elizabeth shows 1884 ? ? ? ? ? I do know that a few kids were born to Robert and Elizabeth before they got married....
I think I have told you all I have about the Hardys - except maybe that Robert's first wife Mary is buried at Rookwood Cemetery in Sydney - I think I found her grave last year ,but I can't put my hand on the photo I took. As soon as I find it, I will shoot a copy to you for interest...
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Email reply from John Parker dated 13MAR2009
Life in in England and Ireland for the commoner was appallingly harsh. Many came to Australia, NZ, Canada and US just to get themselves out of the misery they were stuck in. The Irish Orphan Girls were sent partly to start a new life, but also to address the imbalance of men to women in the colonies and become kitchen servants doing mundane chores even if they were uneducated. Many of these girls went on to carve out a far better life than they could ever have hoped for in their homeland.
I was reading through the life of one of the English ancestors of my son-in-law. He was convicted of stealing $5 worth of mundane household goods, so as to feed his family. His execution by hanging was commuted to a life sentence in Australia. He was released 5 years into his service and went on to start a new life on the south coast with his wife.
For sure many convicts had a similar outcome and just stayed. And I have no doubt that most of the free men and women who came out here were sponsored for a contracted period. They decided that life here was far preferable to life back in Ireland or England.
There may be a good reason why Isabella's birthyear is shown as 1884 rather than 1885. Advancing years may have brought a degree of dementia? If you look at my grandparents marriage certificate, the ages of both the bridegroom and bride are wrong by about 3 years. Yet it was witnessed by Elizabeth Hardy and Jessie Teresa Hardy. They must have known how old they were and they must have had their own reasons for changing their ages. We will never know, but so long as we know the real dates, then its immaterial.
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